Episode 108: Attunement: When Your Parenting Hits All the Right Notes (and a Few Funky Ones) with Dr. Bill Senyard

Children  0:00  
We think you should know that Imperfect Heroes podcast is a production of Little Hearts Academy USA

DJ Stutz  0:09  
Welcome heroes and heroines to Episode 108 of Imperfect Heroes - Insights Into Parenting, the perfect podcast for imperfect parents looking to find joy in their experience of raising children in an imperfect world, and I'm your host DJ Stutz.

In today's podcast, we are delving into the profound effect of the actions of love and explore its impact on our children. And I'm thrilled that you have chosen to join us today, Dr. Bill Senyard has dedicated his life to spreading the message of God's unwavering love for us all. And as a devoted husband, he's the proud parent of three, and the delighted grandparent of two so far. He understands the importance of nurturing, strong, loving connections within our families, and Dr. Senyard has his own podcast. It's called Gospel Rant. And it's a great resource for insightful discussions on faith, parenting, forgiveness, addiction, and finding reassurance in God's unconditional love. It's a fabulous podcast very worth the listen. And he has created some biblical programs and tools to support Christian parents, and those who are grappling with forgiveness, addiction, and individuals who question their worth in the eyes of God. In today's episode, we are focusing on a topic close to my heart. It's called attunement. So join us as we explore the significance of a tuning with your children and cultivating meaningful experiences that foster love and connection. And together, we will discover some practical strategies that will enable you to strengthen the bond with your loved ones, and provide them with the reassurance and affection they need. So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, find a cozy spot and get ready to embark on a journey of faith, love, and restoration. There's so much to learn. So let's get started. 

Hey everyone, DJ Stutz, with Little Hearts Academy and the Imperfect Heroes podcast. And thank you so much for choosing to spend some time with us today. And today, I have a fabulous guest I'm really excited about and we're gonna be talking about attunement. Let's see what that means. Bill, Senyard. How are ya?

Dr. Bill Senyard  2:50  
I'm doing great. Thank you. It is so great to be on your show.

DJ Stutz  2:54  
Oh, thank you. I'm excited to have you here. I know, we've talked before and connected and what a fun connection that we've had and made. It's been pretty fun. So attunement, can you tell us what on earth does that mean?

Dr. Bill Senyard  3:09  
You know, based on what I know about you, and I've heard, I think your listeners already have heard this. But let me just expand on it a little bit. The way God made us we are not born with the ability to self regulate emotionally. We've got just billions of undifferentiated Noor neurons. And it's this interaction with the primary caregiver, typically the mother but not necessarily by the way, starting in the third trimester of pregnancy, the babies are just inherently subconsciously because they can't form the words. But they're saying they're crying out. Is there anyone there for me? And it's not just location standing beside me. It's this sense of does anybody out there have my back? Does anybody care for me? Does anybody Adore Me Love Me? And the way they're designed to, since that be aware of that? Is this close? Close, close contact. It's visual that's using words it's using touch between the baby the infant and the primary caregiver, normally the mother?

DJ Stutz  4:13  
Yeah, yeah. And in fact, we know that it's during that last trimester, that babies are starting to connect with vocal sounds and stress that mom may or may not be under. And so if they're learning those things before they even come out of the womb, I'll just go down a little bit of a rabbit hole. There are people there are people they're real. They're huge machines, right? Yeah.

Dr. Bill Senyard  4:40  
Yeah. And the third trimester is important. We know now we used to think that the baby was protected from cortisol but now we know that cortisol which is the stress hormone does cross the placenta. So stressed mom, stressed baby depressed mom depressed baby. I'm not judging the mom that happens, right? Life is life. Sometimes parents are in in stressful situations poverty or whatever danger, whatever could be, or anger or struggle between them and their spouses or partners. So cortisol is it just happens. But what happens in the baby is it it stunts growth of good neurons in the baby's head. So when the baby's born, they need positive, attunement dramatically. And for attachment theorist, which I love, it's one out of three interactions. If moms can do that attunement, connecting one out of three, that's not nine out, it's one out of three, the baby will all other things equal, there's also diseases and things like that. But all other things equal, the baby will enter their next stage of growth secure.

DJ Stutz  5:45  
Yeah. And I think one of the very first acts of that post birth is that skin to skin contact. Excellent. Understand, and I can you tell people about

Dr. Bill Senyard  5:55  
that? Yeah. Well, I

DJ Stutz  5:57  
think it's just because the baby is so used to having that personal skin to skin contact. That's all that child has been used the last nine months. And so getting to know the smells and, and connect with the rhythm of the heartbeat, which is 90% of what they've been listening to the whole time they've been going in there. It's interesting. I can tell you a short story. My middle daughter, Rocky, her first child was born under really stressful circumstances, the cord was wrapped around his neck as heart rate dropped drastically. Oh, man. I was there for it as was her husband, Peter. I mean, it was literally like one of those TV dramas where you see a bunch of doctors running down the hall with the gurney and shouting orders. And so from the time of her second labor pain to the birth of this little guy was literally just 10 minutes. Oh, yeah, super stressful, super scary for everyone involved. And they didn't even have time to give her anaesthetic, they put her out, rip the baby out, even nicked his little head with the scalpel because her fluids had gone, they were gone. And so when she came to, she had no anesthesia to protect her mind from all of the surgical processes that had bothered her. Oh, she was incapable of that skin to skin contact. They were trying to manage her pain. So Peter stepped in and they said, We know skinned chicken skins important to you guys. Mom can't do it. Peter, do you want to do and he's like, Oh, well, yes. I mean, you could see it hadn't even hit him that he would be the one doing it. But he was indeed the parent that did that very first skin to skin contact. And it was, oh, I have pictures. And it's just so heartwarming. But I will tell you now, this little guy is seven years old. And who's his hero? Yeah, yeah, his dad. Yeah, dad is a daddy's boy. Totally, totally. Totally.

Dr. Bill Senyard  8:04  
So. So you're, you're saying it's it was that initial connection? Maybe that caused that?

DJ Stutz  8:09  
I wonder? I wonder. I mean, and Peter's an awesome father. And so that's probably another big piece of it. He is patient and kind and all of those things, but he was the one to do that skin to skin and he's the one I mean, still the mommy. But if you can do anything with dad, man, that's the deal.

Dr. Bill Senyard  8:29  
I got a great quote from Dr. David era Dondo listen to this. This is on attunement. But I just love it. I use it in all my talks. And he's imagining this Mom, he's got him speaking of mom holding the baby. And there's that connection that neural connection with with neurons are mirroring. There's oxytocin and dopamine popping off in the baby's brain. And, and in the mother's that's just how things have been designed. And so in that moment of attunement, this is what he says this mother and this baby are in a process, a form of reciprocal connectedness call attunement. His eyes and her eyes are locked together, not just locked together, but dancing together, really. And in this child's brain, 1000 connections per second are being formed in that attunement 1000 per second. And this child is learning to read facial expression, the child is learning about the world. He's learning about that the world is responsive or not responsive, he's learning that he can be an object of delight, and that he can delight others. He's learning what he's worth. He's learning what the world is like. He's learning so much so quickly. We can't even conceive of it.

DJ Stutz  9:37  
Yeah, absolutely. The brain development within that first year of life is just phenomenal. And so I love that you brought that up, and I love the idea of them dancing, right? Yes, right.

Dr. Bill Senyard  9:51  
And you moms feel that I mean more than men because of the oxytocin but it's almost like I can't get the baby away from you. Yeah, Ah, yeah, there's a desk going on. It's like, Can I cut it or something like that?

DJ Stutz  10:05  
Yeah. And I know that very often medical professionals that are there, it's like, Okay, we got to take the baby. Now we gotta lean them on, check them, make sure everything's okay. And that's a hard gift for mom.

Dr. Bill Senyard  10:21  
And for the baby to because the baby is just just cruising with all of that. I was talking to another doctor yesterday, I guess. And they brought up what do you say to mothers? who for whatever reason, postpartum or, like you said health reasons. couldn't do that. Now what? So they missed that opportunity? Maybe it was three weeks, maybe? Maybe it's three months, maybe it's nine months. But what do they do now that the child is a toddler or now that the child? And my answer was really the same thing. It's just a different context. And you're not gonna be able to hold them necessarily to go goo goo goo. Maybe they're talking. But you can still look them in the eye. And say, what I teach people of toddlers and tweens is you put your hand if you can, if it's okay, on their shoulder, below their shoulder, I'm not quite sure why that works. I had a doctor tell me that a long time ago, and I've used it quite a bit and say, look him in the eye, pull him close and go, do you know how big a fan of yours I am? Or how much I love you. My son in law does that with his son, my grandson, and he says Malcolm says, Why is it that I love you so much. And he just waits for Malcolm to respond. And he just does it randomly throughout the day. It is attunement is the eye connection. It's the TOT its flesh on flesh. It's oral, it's by words. And that kind of connection. Again, if parents can intentionally I know, lives difficult, but if parents can do that one out of three interactions, see that gives you two interactions where you can totally mess up. We need that we need that. But one out of three intentionally throughout the day. It is amazing. The neural response, the child will end up being more secure, happier, more exploring the world, they'll feel safe, they'll make friends better, there'll be kinder, all other things equal, there'll be kinder to the parents to their teachers. And I work with primarily parents of teenagers and tweens. And if parents did that, oh my gosh, adolescence would be so much easier. It's got to be hard anyway, because again, neuroscience. But if they had that trusted relationship with the parent, which is largely due to attunement, it would be so much easier than

DJ Stutz  12:46  
Yeah, yeah, I work with parents, but I also work with teachers who are dealing with very difficult students, especially in those primary grades. So that's kindergarten, first and second grade. And that's part of what I teach them is that even when you have that child that's constantly challenging or throwing temper tantrums or whatever, but if you're letting that kid know that you love them, what is it that I love about you? And I can remember one year, I had a particularly rough year, and I worked mostly in very low income, high risk schools. Okay, specialty, all right. That's what I love to do. And I stressed kids

Dr. Bill Senyard  13:31  
there as kids was stressed parents gang activity.

DJ Stutz  13:35  
More than half of my class every year had incarcerated family. And I had 123 homeless kids, there was a homeless shelter in our school zone. And so we would get kid two or three from there. Often. Anyway, I had this one little guy. And when he lost it, he didn't even really scream or yell, he would just start knocking things off of the shelves. He would knock over tables, he would, you know, just get really upset. But this kid was the most honest kid I ever met in my life. And so we hadn't thing where we were kindergarten. And so we had our own bathroom. We had a Boys and Girls within in the classroom, they could. And sometimes someone would come out and say someone didn't flush right? Like up who forgot to flush. And if it was this little guy, I'll call him James. He'd say, oh, that's probably me. Well, all the other kids, they would like lie. They'd be embarrassed. They'd like not me, not me. It's like, oh, yeah,

Dr. Bill Senyard  14:43  
I would have been there. Yeah, yeah,

DJ Stutz  14:47  
for sure. Anyway, it was the last day of school and we had our little graduation and all the other parents took their kids home after that little morning graduation. Well James, his mom was working. And so she could barely make the graduation she had to rip off as soon as it was over. He was the only child I had for the rest of the day. In fact, he was the only child in the entire kindergarten that didn't go home with his family after. So we were just busy doing stuff and putting things away. And he was my helper boy, you know, and we were walking down the hall to put some stuff away. And one of the teachers, it was another grade. But she said, Wait, you have a student? And I'm like, Yeah, I got a student. And he's standing right there. And she says, geez, of all the kids. I wanted to slap her. I want her to slap. Yeah, yeah. And so I said, I know of all the kids that could have stayed Hi, got J. lucky am I and I'm, like, you Yeah. And I said, James, tell Miss on. So tell her why I like you. And he said, Because I tell the truth.

Dr. Bill Senyard  16:07  
Wow. He had identity.

DJ Stutz  16:11  
He had that when that was his identity. Oh,

Dr. Bill Senyard  16:13  
this is fascinating. I want to pick your brain. So you know, ideally, in a healthy situation, healthy mom, no stress. I mean, minimal stress life. Rest. But did you see kids that were attunement deficit? I don't know if that's the right.

DJ Stutz  16:30  
Yes, yes. Especially I had another year I had a little boy who he could only use markers. He wasn't allowed to use pencils. Because if he got irritated with someone, he would stab another child with the pen. Yeah, you know, and just a lot of anger and all of that. But my goal as a teacher, and as a mom, no, I've got my own five kids. And now I've got 12 grandkids. But as a teacher, my goal was that every child in my class knew that I saw something that was special in them and about them. So with James, it was being honest. With Joey, it might have been, you're really good at helping other students.

Dr. Bill Senyard  17:17  
I got it. So you found one thing that you could praise them for? That could become the staple in their identity. They always had that even if they messed up. They always had that.

DJ Stutz  17:29  
Yeah. Oh, yeah. That was never taken away. And in fact, another step that was important to me, and this could work for parents as well as teachers, is not only did that child know what it was that I thought was great about them. Every kid in the class knew.

Dr. Bill Senyard  17:46  
Yeah, yeah. Every kid

DJ Stutz  17:49  
knew. James was honest.

Dr. Bill Senyard  17:52  
You've been at this a while did it? Stick with them into their tween years and teen years?

DJ Stutz  17:58  
With some of them? They did. I'm still in contact with a lot of my families. Unfortunately, the last thing I heard about James was he and his siblings had been placed in foster care.

Dr. Bill Senyard  18:07  
And so that's part of real life nowadays. And yeah,

DJ Stutz  18:11  
yeah, broke my heart to hear that. So I haven't been able to know how that worked with him. But but with some of my other kids, I mean, I've got some in sixth, seventh eighth grade that will still call me the first week of school and say, Hey, I'm starting this and they still will remember what their thing was. I have a little girl that was very musical. She loved music. She was very well behaved. Very smart, great reader. Yeah, music was her thing. And every year she'll call and sing me a song on the phone.

Dr. Bill Senyard  18:42  
Because you told her music was her thing. She was yeah, she was musical. You love music.

DJ Stutz  18:47  
When she'd be working, she would hum and do a little singing while she was working. And I had noticed and another, you know, you have different specialists art, music that and she was in an art class, I went to go pick them up. And I heard the art teacher was getting after her. Because while she was working and doing her project, she was singing to herself. That irritated the teacher and I thought

Dr. Bill Senyard  19:16  
oh my goodness, that's one of the problems. I mean, we could work this out as a society if we spent as much time training parents on attunement, something so simple. I mean, even even in their birthing classes, or whatever it might be is to say, look one out of three times and here's how you do it, hold the doll up, and just say to them and find like you just did I think it's brilliant. Find the one thing that that you can always praise and just let that child get that sense of identity and let the neurons start developing. So there's a there's new studies out you for you're probably familiar with them, but me dealing with teens and tweens and addicts as adults is if the child doesn't get successful attunement, whatever that is in their context. That go Trying to be addictive prone. There's even one study that basically links attunement in the first two years with the chance they'll be in jail. By the time they're 21. I mean, it's that connective. Now there's time for reparation during adolescence, the brains blowing up again, and you can restructure thing and parents or caregivers have kind of a Mulligan, I describe it where they can go and do the same thing for their child. Yeah, but they have to do it intentionally. And there's already lots of water under the bridge.

DJ Stutz  20:30  
Yeah, for sure. For sure. And I think that's a part of why I do work I do with parents of young kids. I love it. It doesn't happen often enough, when I get an expectant parents calling me and saying, Hey, we want to be the best parents, right? Do you have a program for me? And I'm like, Well, of course I do. But if we can start out in those first early years and build that foundation on a rock, so to speak, you know, three times, yes. And let them engage and understand the development of kids. So many times I'll hear at a store or on a playground or something, and they'll get mad at a kid and say, at your age, and I keep wanting to say

Dr. Bill Senyard  21:15  
they are Yeah, exactly. And you're not. Yeah. But that's how they

DJ Stutz  21:21  
were raised. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah, it's a cycle. We have boundaries, but we have loving boundaries. And we don't have to yell and scream and get mad to force our boundaries, we have to stand strong, is what we have to do.

Dr. Bill Senyard  21:37  
It's again, where we lost that ability in the first one to two years to our brain, developing the capability to emotionally self regulate. And if my parent didn't do that, for me, for my first year, I mean, when I'm dysregulated, crying, crying out thinking is anybody there, if they didn't come along and soothe me and emotionally regulate me, my brain is not going to learn how to do that. And so they will use things like drugs later on to self soothe, or sex to self soothe, or pornography to self soothe, or go into a gang and just fight it out.

DJ Stutz  22:12  
Yeah. And I know that it's getting harder for our kids, because so much of that is being thrown at them now. In society. Online, in

Dr. Bill Senyard  22:22  
Oh, yeah. Social media. Oh my gosh, yeah.

DJ Stutz  22:25  
Teachers at school, teaching them things that go against, like, God piece that's inside. Yeah. And that's confusing to them. And it's not them at an earlier and earlier and, or age. And so it's our role as a parent now to get them ready and to get them able to know that you are loved. And are fine, right? And

Dr. Bill Senyard  22:50  
yeah, and you're talking specific things that can be done. And it's not this early Christian thing. These are things that are not in our brain design, but a specific things that are not mythological, or esoteric. It's like, here are three things you can do and do them regularly and intentionally do them and your child will grow up to be all things equal, more secure, and happier. They'll do better in school, they'll be less prone to addiction. Oh my gosh, we just don't teach it. No, we do I get that. Yeah. And I

DJ Stutz  23:22  
do to me, little anatomy.

Dr. Bill Senyard  23:26  
Totally. There it is. A little hearts and I've got programs.

DJ Stutz  23:28  
I've got coaching. I've got all of that to help you.

Dr. Bill Senyard  23:32  
You do. I bet you do.

DJ Stutz  23:34  
One of the key things is just understanding what are they learning at this point? And because they never ever stopped learning. I've had parents who would argue and they say, but we only argue when the kids are asleep. Trust me, because I grew up in that home. They're not sleeping. And even if they are still calm comes in and works in on them. But that first year is so important. You cannot spoil a child under one year of age.

Dr. Bill Senyard  24:02  
Yeah, yeah.

DJ Stutz  24:03  
You love them. You nurture them. Yeah. Yeah, I

Dr. Bill Senyard  24:07  
think with maternity leave, which I'm for, I think we should send moms home caregivers home with a workbook here are things you should do on your maternity leave for your self awareness. And that's some of the things I work on. And good enough parenting is how to teach the parent actually to co regulate with God more. So they're coming to their child not needing the child to make them feel like a good parent, but actually their cups overflowing. So they are a good parent for the child. All important, but we can give them notes of five or six things they can do each day. Simple, not overwhelming. I think it would make a big difference. I think we have less people shooting up schools. I think I saw an article I wish I have to find it. But it was at the top 20 school shootings all boys under 21 But only two of them were psychologically psychopaths. The rest I think He was three, three out of 20. The rest actually had mental emotional issues that could be solved either through medication or by loving care. It's shocking. I think we've got solutions to this problem, you know, not 100%. But 17 out of 20.

DJ Stutz  25:17  
Yeah. Hello there. Right. And so are we giving them the coping skills to deal with if I'm being bullied all the time, or I'm? So I'll let you know, my youngest daughter went to Columbine High School,

Dr. Bill Senyard  25:30  
and we go before she there when the shooting? Oh, no, no, she

DJ Stutz  25:32  
was there long after. But the same principle is there. He's stayed there for 20 years.

Dr. Bill Senyard  25:40  
I do. I spoke to him about six months ago, we're trying to work together on a certain project, you know, and he was telling me that he's fascinated by and troubled, deeply, deeply troubled by his what you were saying is kids in middle school and even younger are becoming violent. Yeah, they're pushing teachers, they're fighting back, like you said that knocking things off. He's concerned because those kids are going to grow older. And obviously, their parents don't seem to know what we've been talking about, you know, that one out of three occasions. Yeah, kid just cannot self soothe. And so as resorting to anger, that's how our brain is made to.

DJ Stutz  26:16  
Yeah, Frank is great. And he has some great insights. So if you see his name is Frank De Angeles for my listeners. And if you want to find him, I know he's on all the socials. And yeah, he's got a website. And he's yet Google him, Frank De Angeles. And then he was the principal at Columbine when it happened, and then for another 20 years, and we were there with my daughter, Noelle, towards the end of those 20 years. Yeah, he finished his tour of duty, so to speak, a couple of years after Noel graduated. So really looking into some of those things, bullying is going to happen. And I think, too, we're so worried about our kids being bullied, that we're unable to look at the possibility that my child is a bully. And I will tell you, I think almost every child becomes a bully at some point, not interested, not for long pieces of time. But any child if they're hungry, they didn't eat or they haven't slept, or there's rats going on that they don't know how to manage. We're asking kids to manage stress that adults don't handle well.

Dr. Bill Senyard  27:24  
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Look around, right. Yeah.

DJ Stutz  27:29  
And if we're a tone or a tune, sorry, get my words turned around. If we're tuned to our kids, and we can see some of that. So maybe there are some financial issues, or maybe mom and dad aren't getting along, or there's been a divorce or yeah, that's all part of life. Postpartum depression. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. My same Rocky, my daughter there, she dealt with it significantly. And I don't know if it's because of that the way the birth came about or what but but she was smart enough to keep asking questions until she found a doctor who could actually help her. So keep asking, but I think too, if those stresses are going on, oh, the kids are fine. Or I've heard, oh, the kids are young. All the worse. They have no idea what's going on Daddy left and it must be my fault. Mommy didn't it must be my fault. It seems

Dr. Bill Senyard  28:20  
that speaks to that lack of trust. And all we're talking about is for the parent to come real close draw the child, whether it's a toddler or an infant and go, do you know how much I love you or third infant. I'm here baby. I'm here. I've got it. I've got it. Look at the goo goo goo goo look at me and just hold the baby until they can regulate. And it's normal. It's how we've been created. And I understand the big problem. I've been a pastor for 30 years. The big problem is the parents are stressed. They're worried about messing up. They don't know what to do. They were raised without this often. And so they believe that they're not a good mom, not a good dad. And cortisol passing through the placenta. That kind of depression and insecurity and low self esteem gets passed on to the infant subconsciously. And then you got even more problems. So.

DJ Stutz  29:10  
Exactly, exactly. So I think you know, just checking in and realizing that if you split up, and I'll tell you what, even if they are tweens and teens, often they'll blame themselves if I'd have been a better kid if I'd have, you know, so from the time they're very little, you want to reassure them and say you are loved by more than you know. So I have a granddaughter my son divorced in his first marriage. And so my son has her for a lot of reasons, but not that. The ex wife was a bad but I like her and I think she's a great little mom. And so every other week, my son is driving three and a half hours one way to make sure that she's with her mom for that weekend. And then he goes down and picks her up and brings her back and And so when talking to my granddaughter, I said, Do you understand that you have more people who love you in your life than a lot of people do. And so we started talking about she does her stepmom and her stepdad and even her step grandparents. It's fun to just kind of talk to her and reassure her that it didn't work out and that sad and we wish it could have, but it didn't. And it was not about you. And now you have look at all these people you have in your life and in your family that just adore you.

Dr. Bill Senyard  30:33  
So I talked about a toddler attunement, I talked about tween attunement, adolescent attunement, even adult attunement for marriage relationship. And it's the same thing firing in my brain, my brain as an infant, it was asking one question, is there anybody there for me? Attachment theorists have kind of parse that into two questions when they become toddler and have a voice? Is there anybody who has my back who I can actually trust when I mess up? I feel safe with the second one. Is there anybody out there who actually loves me that I can see it in their face? Man, adults are asking that question addicts rescue that question teens. Oh, my goodness, are ants asking that question 24/7 Social media pretends to answer that question, and then keeps moving the goalposts. And so

DJ Stutz  31:19  
yeah, social media is not a good place for adults for kids.

Dr. Bill Senyard  31:25  
Yeah, I'm a big fan of not letting children onto social media until well into their teens. Gotta give them a phone, give them a flip phone, give them a dumb phone. And it's just dangerous at this point. And parents can't be everywhere. It's got a lot of good to it. I mean, we're on it, right. But we got to be aware of what's going on on our brains.

DJ Stutz  31:46  
And I know the parents are scared, like if something happened at school, or whatever. And so I understand that and they have watches now that you can use and yeah, and they have special phones. But I'm gonna be really careful that I mean, I had some of my kindergarteners headphones, which I thought was a little early. Do

Dr. Bill Senyard  32:05  
you agree with that? When When do you think it's safe to have social media? What age what stage of life? For me?

DJ Stutz  32:11  
I would say like 17

Dr. Bill Senyard  32:14  
Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. But that depending upon the context, yep. Okay. Yeah.

DJ Stutz  32:18  
I'm sure whenever they had did get that and started in social media that I've had and my husband, we've had a chance to talk to them and educate them and let them know. So here's just a little thing for you guys, is most of you, I think, have heard of Operation Underground Railroad Tim Ballard's program where they rescue children from the sex slaves. Yeah. But they have a program on their website. And so it's Oh, you are rescue? I think it's a.com or.org. It's probably a.org. But they have a video presentation on how to pay attention to your children so that they are not being exposed to predators on social media.

Dr. Bill Senyard  33:03  
Oh, excellent. Thanks. Yeah. And it's free. Yeah, that's a must have to pay for it. That's really good. That's really good.

DJ Stutz  33:10  
Yeah, I would actually recommend that one. Yeah. And so we get them from that first year. And we've nurtured them and love them. And they know if I cry, my mom's going to come get me or my dad's going to come. Or maybe a big brother, sister. I mean, I was 10. When the twins were born. They were numbers five and six. And then my mom had another one the summer before my senior year of high school. And so for me, I did a lot of that nurturing and loving. And it's funny, because that youngest brother is the one I'm closest to even even today. So I'm in rock clubs. Danny, Danny. Absolutely. And so we go from that first year. And then we go to what I call the terrific tissues. Because they're learning so much. It's coming in so much, but we get tired throw tantrums, we get tired of, you know, I want it now or I'm refusing to go to bed because now they're starting to exert their independence. Right? And so once they start exerting that independence in their own way, what do you think about with developing that attunement so that you're still not it's bedtime, sweetheart? We're gonna go to bed but I still love you. What are some of the suggestions that you bring to the table? Yeah, let

Dr. Bill Senyard  34:34  
me brag on my son in law Jeff with one of my grandsons Malcolm. So when he was three and four, he's six. Now he's got this down what Jeff did, he gives random signs of affection to Malcolm. I mean, he walks up to him in the middle of the day and looks at him and says, I think I shared this. Malcolm Do you know how much I love you? I just wanted to say that sia and it was like these, you know, these drive by shootings of that I've been going to bed that's what triggered this is they have a kind of a shotgun house and so the bedroom is at the end of the house and, and he goes, there's a long hallway out of the bedroom and back to a window. And so Jeff, he says he dresses down, very informal floppy socks and everything. Malcolm is on the bed standing. He's going to bed right? And they start in the bedroom and Jeff goes, Okay, Malcolm, are you ready for running kisses? He calls it running kisses. And Malcolm, are you ready? And he goes, Yeah, Dad, I'm ready. And so Jeff starts backing up and are you still ready? And you know, just building up the expectation. He goes all the way back to the end of the house. And he goes, Okay, Malcolm, I'm coming 123 And he starts running goofy, funny, hilariously down the hall so Malcolm can see. So he's getting all energetic and excited. And when he gets to the bed, he tackles him, and he just kisses him all over saying how much I love you how much I love you how much I love you. And he says that's the last thing. Malcolm knows experiences before he goes to bed. And then he talks about, by the way, Malcolm, you have a heavenly Father who loves you that much. And I just thought, Oh my goodness. That is brilliant. Every day Malika would get that weird dad running to him and embarrassing humiliating himself as you will just to say how much he's loved. And Malcolm is a very, very secure kid. You know, I was looking for this is a quote, this is kind of a negative one. But this is Susie Gruber. She talks about the invisible ACCE but this is what she's noticed from a child who received little attunement Can I read this? Oh, please. It's brutal. It's brutal. This was Susie Gruber says so what happens inside little ones who frequently experienced this sort of miss attunement, they stop expressing their need. They learn to unconsciously reject their needs to then shut down and disconnect from their needs. Children who experienced this sort of deprivation give up their demand for caring and love. They decide unconsciously there's no hope that their needs will be met. Giving up becomes a common way to respond to stress. As the child matures, she becomes used to living with those unmet physical and emotional needs to develop survival strategies like being really helpful to others and needing very little for herself. She has an unconscious belief that our deepest needs don't matter and she doesn't matter. She may feel a erased and empty like she doesn't exist. When she risk expressing a need she gives up easily if someone doesn't respond when caregivers consistently attune to a baby lead. In contrast, neural networks are built in the brain that support the development of communication and social skills. But where there is consistent Miss attunement, a baby lives in a state of constant stress, due to unmet age creating significant emotional and physiological issues. Subconscious, the baby is just difficult to communicate with I bet there's moms who are listening to your show go oh my gosh, that might explain Betty or Johnny. And it's fixable, because our brains have plasticity. But we start with the one out of three. Hey, do you know how much I love you? I'm your biggest fan. I'd by stalking you, whatever your context resonates with your child. Right?

DJ Stutz  38:17  
Yeah, you know, I've seen those kids. I've seen those kids, the shutdown classroom. Yeah, I've seen them. And I will tell you, so my youngest child, we adopted, and she was 12 years old when she came to our family. She'll tell her friends or people that she was 12 years overdue.

Dr. Bill Senyard  38:36  
But I bet she has a story or two. Oh, my goodness.

DJ Stutz  38:40  
And she was seven years in foster care with 11 different placements, and two other failed adoptions. So oh, you know, and even as an adult, and she's married, and she's got her own little guy. And you talk about putting others needs in front of their own. No, you. And this can be a wonderful thing. She is the most forgiving person I've ever met my life. singularly you could slap her in the face, and an hour later, invite her to lunch, and she'd probably go with you and think, Oh, we're friends again. You know, the bad part is she's been taking advantage of often.

Dr. Bill Senyard  39:17  
Yeah, you could forgive for the wrong reasons you can forgive because you don't think you're worth the injustice.

DJ Stutz  39:24  
Yeah, I don't know. She's starting to stick up for herself. She's a bigger 27 now. So she's starting to come to terms and we're talking a lot about it. And but you see that in fact, after we adopted her she's had this rant like it went on for four hours of screaming and yelling and where did this come from? And finally she said you're just going to throw me back in the system. Let's get it over.

Dr. Bill Senyard  39:50  
Oh my goodness. There we go. Oh my gosh, fear cycle kicked in to fight. Yeah, by the way, you don't know this about me but my doctoral thesis This was on biblical forgiveness. We actually have an online thing, couple hours, two and a half hours on how to biblically forgive, I think we've totally messed it up. And we've had 1000 plus people go through this thing. And in two and a half hours, desire for revenge goes down 21% desire to be empathetic goes up 38% Since of a justice for whatever was done to me, goes up 78% It's ridiculous elet works. It's called forgiving path, people can track it down forgiving path.com It's a slight fee, I forget how much it is. But it's a fraction of a counseling visit. That's like $29 Something like that, to do the two hours, we've had dramatic results. We've had abuse victims attempted murder victims, we've had rape victims, we've had addicts regularly, addicts always have something they need to forgive. But parents, you know, mommy issues and daddy issues anyway, just on the side forgiving paths.com And your listeners may find that very valuable.

DJ Stutz  41:00  
We'll be sure to put that in our show notes. And so if you're listening, you're interested, just pop down to the show notes. And while you're there, if you like what you've heard today, give us a five star rating and review. It's really easy. Just click away. So how would our listeners find you get a hold of you?

Dr. Bill Senyard  41:20  
Yeah. So they can check out my podcast gospel read.com. And I do have a store so they can track down the forgiving path there. And there's a couple of other things. The thing that I'm really passionate about is my good enough parent, and it's totally free. It's online. It's 15 tips we send to parents of teens and tweens. It's good for toddlers as well. It helps you understand what's going on in your brain as a parent, your child's brain talks about plasticity, it talks about attachment theory at attunement at various stages. I really recommend it when people register at good enough parent dot online, they get 15 Tips short biblical video tips that one a day for 15 days. And like I said, it's already funded. So it's free. It's just people just come, come and take that and you can find more about that at gospel rant.com. The other thing is again speaking to parents because we tend to beat up parents. Here's the thing that I'd say as a pastor of 30 years is you know, we can talk about infant attunement, toddler attunement, tween attunement, teen attunement, the spiritual attunement. And I've got these busted into working models with critical inner voice and it's causing me to not feel loved by God, Jesus purchased that love 2000 years ago, but there's something inside my brain that's broken Yeah, and refuses to it's the stronghold spiritually most of those strong goals. And so, John Calvin said the Holy Spirit and Christians inner being his secret workings is to make Christians actually feel loved by God today, because we all need that is very sophisticated John Calvin, but we prepared these bookmarks. Can I read the simple uncluttered gospel? What I tell addicts what I tell teenagers, we actually have a teenage version parents we have a parent version is the same thing. But let me read this and you'll see what I mean. It's that it's that asking for that spiritual spiritual attunement from God so that I can be a better parent. So I emotionally and spiritually regulate. So I don't use my child for my identity. And we all do, right, right. No secret. Yeah. So here we go. So here's the simple, uncluttered God. And we recommend that people say it twice a day, I still do Jesus follower strictly because of what Jesus did for you. 2000 years ago, God actually loves you. He loves you with all of his heart as much as the Father loves the Son, the Son loves the Father. He can't love you any more or any less than he does right now. I mean, think Jeff with the running kisses. He loves you as you are not as you should be, or could be you can't add to this love or take away from it. Now I get it, it often feels like you've messed it up or need to do something so that God would like you better but not so how do you experience it more now? Simple, good news. There's something you can do and are invited to do. You can take daily baby steps to ask the Spirit inside of you to make you know, experience and feel just how much God loves you right now. Just ask. Ask again later today as tomorrow make it a spiritual habit. So they can go to that pod page gospel rent.com and get these that really cheap, or they could just play your podcast over and over and over until they memorize it. But either way you go for word, we're creating a new habit. So it really does you know how habits are. So it needs to be word for word. It needs to be spoken aloud often. So twice a day for 3040 days. DJ I have seen miracles. It's not scripture, but it's preaching the gospel to my critical inner voice. I've seen porn addicts rescued I've seen attempt did murder addicts really kind of come back to life? I've seen marriages saved because of people just preaching this gospel to their critical inner voice. All of this is doable. Yeah, it's still get abs. It's not rocket science.

DJ Stutz  45:13  
And it's not something that happens overnight.

Dr. Bill Senyard  45:16  
Thank you for saying that. That's exactly right. We're building a habit. Yeah,

DJ Stutz  45:19  
absolutely. Well, gosh, I love what we have going on here and what you've had to offer, I always ask my guests the same final question. And so I'm going to ask you as well, how would you describe a successful parent?

Dr. Bill Senyard  45:35  
Oh, this is easy, because this is why we call our program good enough parent. It's that one out of three, intentional attunements where the parent caretaker guardian, takes their child, no matter what age looks them in the eye, holds them puts hands around them and says, how much they love them. One out of three interactions. Yes, so doable.

DJ Stutz  45:55  
And no matter what age they are, no matter what age in adults, I was just gonna say, my kids are from 42 to 29. And it's still saying,

Dr. Bill Senyard  46:08  
I recommended one lady. She was she's she's estranged from one of our children, a boy. And so what do I do? And you know, he's moved away. And I said, Look, here it is. Here's the intentional attunement. Call them up and leave a message on their leave or text file and say, Do you know how much I love you just want to let you know, see? And do that often? Until that's a drip, drip drip. Does something inside of their brain? Because that's what they're looking for.

DJ Stutz  46:32  
That's what I'm that's what they need. And yeah, and so it never ends. Because I think even beyond the veil, it continues. There have been times that I have felt my dad my dad died when I was 35. wasn't a big scientists very well known very well known scientist in his sphere. Yep, sure, right. But one time before I had my degree, I was doing some substitute teaching. And I was asked to substitute teaching that honors high school science class I grew up goes, Yeah, well, I'll tell you what, I walked into that room, and I felt my dad there. He was there helping me through the day. The strongest I've ever felt him since he's passed.

Dr. Bill Senyard  47:21  
The crowd of many witnesses and Hebrews, maybe that's what that's about. Maybe mysterious.

DJ Stutz  47:27  
Yep. Yeah. So anyway, it never ends, in my mind, thought that attunement and reaching out never ends. Well, Bill, send your thank you so much for spending this time with us. But it's a pleasure. Oh, thank you. And I know that I'm going to want to have you back at some point again,

Dr. Bill Senyard  47:46  
I would be honored. Thank you. I've learned so much just just picking your brain. I'd love to pick your brain more about you're working with stressed families in the impoverished stress families. That's really interesting to me. i Yeah, we got to be able to help them.

DJ Stutz  48:01  
Before I got my teaching license. I was certified and worked with the Division of Family news services as a parenting facilitator. And I actually taught parenting classes into women's prisons.

Dr. Bill Senyard  48:13  
Yeah, why not? That's fantastic. Okay, great. Yeah, yeah, I learned

DJ Stutz  48:18  
so much about God and myself. And these women. Yeah. Such a blessing, such a blessing. We'll have to continue the conversation. But thank you so much for being here and being part of our show. And we'll talk again soon. All right, thank you. 

Now, if you want to learn more about Dr. Senyard's work, his free online program that's designed specifically for frustrated Christian parents, it's called Good Enough Parent. And you can find all the information in the show notes below. And while you're there, hit the Follow button to make sure you are getting in on the amazing episodes that we have each week. And if you like what you hear in today's podcast, be sure to be sure to rate review and tell a friend. And you can do this, whether you're listening on Apple, Spotify, or some other platform, or if you're just listening from the Imperfect Heroes podcast website, and on the web page of the podcast, imperfectheroespodcast.com. Just click on reviews, and then leave a review. And it's that easy. 

So I have some really exciting news. The enrollment window for the exclusive Cicerone Society is open now. And it's going to close on July 24. And trust me, I understand that parenting is like a roller coaster ride. It's full of twists and turns and the occasional upside down loop. And that's where we come in the Cicerone Society is your secret weapon. It's a vibrant community of parents embarking on this roller coaster together and we know that change takes time. So we're here to guide you through this wild journey. Join us as we help you discover your unique parenting style. decode those pesky triggers, and navigate the emotional maze with finesse. Our focus is building rock solid relationships supercharging communication and empowering parents to superhero status. So welcome to the Cicerone Society, where every week is a thrilling live group parents coaching session. Picture it, you alongside other intrepid parents bravely facing the challenges of child rearing. It's like a support group but without the awkward hugs and those pesky trust balls. 

So next week, my guest is the very enchanting Lynne Bowman, who is a former model and the author of Brownies for Breakfast. Doesn't that sound yummy? So check it out and see and until next time, let's find joy in parenting.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai