Episode 106: The Marvels of Co-Parenting: An Epic Journey with Leslie Holthoff

Children  0:00  
We think you should know that Imperfect Heroes Podcast is a production of Little Hearts Academy USA

DJ Stutz  0:10  
Welcome heroes and heroines to Episode 106 of Imperfect Heroes, Insights Into Parenting, the perfect podcast for imperfect parents looking to find joy in their experience of raising children in an imperfect world, and I'm your host DJ Stutz.

Welcome back to the Imperfect Heroes podcast and today, we have a special episode that will make you kind of rethink everything you thought you knew about co parenting. So joining us today is the incredible Leslie Holthoff. She's a woman of many talents and titles. Not only is she a doctoral student, but she's also a CDC, which means certified divorce coach, and she's an author. She's a wife, she's the mother of two adult sons. She's also mastered the art of co parenting, and has some really fantastic insights to share with us today. But before we dive into that world of co parenting, let's take a moment to appreciate some irony. Who would have thought that the same techniques used to navigate the treacherous waters of post divorce co parenting would also come in handy for co parenting within a marriage. It's like trying to find the right balance between teamwork and not driving each other crazy. No small feat, my friend. Now let me tell you, Leslie is no ordinary guest. She has been studying the intricacies of that joint shared custody, the to home system, and the effects that it has on children. But with a twist, she's talking to adults who have now aged out of that two home system and looking back on their experience, talk about dedication. And so whether you're a seasoned co parenting Pro, or you're just trying to keep your sanity intact, you're in for a treat, and Leslie's here to share her wisdom, her experiences, and maybe a laugh or two along the way. Trust me, you're not going to want to miss this episode. So grab your favorite beverage, find a cozy spot away from the chaos, and get ready to laugh, learn and embrace your own imperfections. As we dive into the world of co parenting with the fabulous, Leslie Holthoff, let's get started. 

Welcome, everyone. And thank you for taking the time to join us at Imperfect Heroes podcast. And so I just want everyone to remember that you're going to hit the FOLLOW, SHARE, COMMENT, especially if what we're talking about today kind of hits a chord or maybe a story that you relate to that you'd love to share. We would love to hear about it. I hope that everyone is enjoying their day, because I'm enjoying mine. I love finding joy in my life. And the lives of those around me are much better when I'm able to see all of the glory that's around us. And so I hope you're having one of those days. Well, today we are talking with Leslie Holthoff.

Holthoff... in flow every time was we have an easy one. So yeah.

I know we've talked a few times that I've blown it every time. Anyway, Leslie is a divorce coach. And so we're talking about co parenting. And even if you are not divorced, a lot of these things that we're talking about in co parenting, and being as aligned as we can be, because sometimes even when you're still in a marriage, and it may be working well. But you're not completely aligned in how we're approaching the kids. So this is a podcast for everybody working together. Leslie, thank you so much for joining us. And why don't you let those thin on all of your stuff?

Leslie Holthoff  4:16  
Sure. Yeah, I love what you were just saying. Because my favorite thing is I say all parents are co parents. That's kind of how I look at that. But anyway, I'm a divorce and co parenting coach. So I help people through the process of divorce and then often just help with co parenting afterwards, which might look like improving communication with their ex or it might look like sometimes I talk to a parent and they just say hey, look, I'm a co parent or I'm a single parent, and my teenagers are driving me crazy and I just can't seem to connect and so we kind of really work on issues to try to help them be able to come up with things they can do to get together and and really connects a little better. So that's what I do.

DJ Stutz  4:50  
I love it. And I just loved out you take this great approach with co parenting in or outside of the marriage. So if anyone's been It's funny to me, I don't know if I've talked about this very much. But back in the day, when we lived in Las Vegas, I spent 16 years as a parenting facilitator for the Division of Family and Youth Services. And one of the classes workshops that I was certified in was divorce parenting, which is hysterical, because I've never been divorced. In fact, we just had our 45th wedding anniversary. And thank you, thank you. But these were court ordered classes. So in Clark County, if you were going through a divorce, you had to register for this class and go through it. And it was interesting to me how sometimes I would get both parents coming to the same class to get the same information. And I thought, Okay, this is good, then I would get others that, well, I have to know if the other parent is registered in this class, because I can't be in the same room with them. And I even saw sometimes it was used as a tactic to prolong the misery. Because they had to take this class, I had to know it was just weird. Sometimes you would get a parent and a girlfriend or a boyfriend that would come with them. Okay, but at least they're kind of getting tense. But yes, yeah. And it's kind of the same information and stuff. But you could really see the parents who were really putting the kids first, it became very clear to me who was putting the kids first, and who was making the divorce all about me, and how I've been so wrong, or whatever. And you may have them. I mean, I'm not saying that it happens. And sometimes you truly are just wrong, no matter how hard you try, because it takes too. But it's important, I think, even if that's the case, I think to get over it, and put the child first and see what's going on. So why don't you help us with some of the things that you have in mind that parents can do to kind of be a team?

Leslie Holthoff  7:05  
Sure, I obviously specialize in the divorce process. So that is really kind of the beginning of a co parenting a separate co parenting relationship for a lot of my clients. And kind of the way that you behave, I usually say that basically your divorce, it's gonna take a year. Obviously, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. But for that year, in many ways, that sets the foundation for what your your co parenting relationship is going to be. That's sort of the kickoff, which is both good and bad, it's bad at you are not your best celebrate this year. For many people, it's the worst year of their life, as far as making incredibly important decisions that will affect the rest of your life. While being caught in like a chaos tornado, right? of emotional, I mean, you are just so emotional, you are running on a 10 Almost every single day, after teaching quickly, I'm expecially. In the beginning, you are learning things about your spouse that you may have never seen before. Meaning that they can be come angry that you left for example, and behave in ways that you never thought this person ever could. So basically, what I look at as my job is to come in and really separate the heat of the moment. And the way we want to look at the end of this. So actually, I just heard this and I love it. They say that therapists are archaeologists and coaches are architects perfect. So we are going to take where you are right now, like I like when you are already separated. Usually, a divorce is imminent, it's just a matter of how this is going to look. And we're going to sit down to talk and say, What kind of CO parent do you want to be? Who do you want to be a year from now and three years from now, because you have to figure that out before you figure out how you want to handle yourself over the next year. That's kind of where I started with my clients because it's so it's extremely difficult on your own to separate your co parent and your spouse. Especially if you've been married for a long time. It's never been a separate thing before you know it's my person. And now it really needs to be in your mind. I can be upset and angry and disappointed, for example that I was cheated on. But in reality, that is a totally different thing than can my child get off the school bus at my spouse's house now, are they capable of raising my child in a competent way that I can be comfortable with like those are two totally different things. And when you are going through a separation slash divorce, it's very hard to separate those things. And as we tried to help you do that, and a lot of that is is in the way that you think about things but it's also in your communication. It's not okay to send one text message where you what you really want to know is if Joe can pick up the kid on Friday at three from school, but in the same message you use it as a two Like to jab them about a new relationship or jab them about the divorce or, you know, just throw something meaning because you can't, you can't do that.

DJ Stutz  10:09  
Well, because you should not know, your scope, right? I mean, I think people do things like that, because it's so easy. And even though they shouldn't, they can. And so making that differentiation and understanding if I just want Joe to pick up the kids after school, that's all the text needs to be about.

Leslie Holthoff  10:34  
And one thing that my clients hate, but I tell them, what's really important is, every time you're texting, because it becomes infrequent, right? I

DJ Stutz  10:42  
mean, how's things right?

Leslie Holthoff  10:44  
I'm like, always try. It doesn't have to be a compliment. But it can be like a thank you, like, Hey, I saw Sally got an A on her test. I know she studied at your house. That's great. Or you know what I mean, like just a recognition more, you kind of go out of your way to say, I heard Sally had a rough time with her friend, and she was upset on Saturday, she said, You talked to her, like, that's so great that she was able to come to your work, you know, sometimes it can be just very small. But the more you try to and it's really less about giving the compliment to them as it is you training yourself to see the value in the other parent. And hopefully, eventually they will begin to reflect that back. Right. Exactly. That's a really important step. And it is it's hard to do. It's really hard to do. Like, I don't want to do it, but it really, it helps you separate to because they are doing things right. And they are struggling just like you are because being a single parent is very, very hard. For all single parents. I don't think it's easy for a single single parent out there. I mean, parenting for married people, it's hard to but the staff thing takes on a lot of new challenges. And it takes a long time to sort of find your flow after you've been raising a child with someone else for a while.

DJ Stutz  11:57  
Yeah, well, and I wonder to that. I think you're setting the stage to when you're able to say thanks for getting Joey at school or the a and I know that she studied at your house, and I really appreciate you taking the time to help her out with that. I think there's some parents that and to think that makes them look weak. But what strength what power? Are we trying to get them if that's the worry. So I have a brother, and they had a little boy. And it was just a rough, rough, hard, hard, hard marriage. And he wound up with custody, and that she had visitation and whatever. But it was awful. It was horrible. She would call the police on him. And she would show up very, very late. You know, you're supposed to pick them up at seven while she would show up at 11 o'clock or midnight and want him and it's like he's asleep. Sorry, come to me in the morning. And then, of course, he was being awful for doing that. And it was just so full of anger and hate. But what I watched was my brother never talking bad about her in front of. Yeah, that's the number one rule number one rule. And one thing that I really noticed and I and I wound up using this in my parenting class, or in my divorce parenting classes, was the every time she would pick him up, pick up my nephew, who was now a dentist and a father of three. But every time she would pick them up the last thing that this little guy would hear and he was only 18 months when they divorced, was be good for your mom. Be good for your mom. And I think that softened things. And it took a few years. I will tell you that. But you know, on his eighth birthday, her and her husband and my brother and his wife, were all for able to go together on a ski day, ski together for his birthday, because that's what he wanted. And they were able to do that. It doesn't mean everything was hunky dory and roses. But when she did have another baby with her new husband, one time they were in town because they live pretty rural. And they ran out of diapers. And you know, instead of running to the store, they called my brother and said, Hey, we ran out of diapers. Can we end the lecture? Yeah, come on over and, and so it just kind of did grow into something from 18 months to about eight years. It took

Leslie Holthoff  14:32  
some time sometimes but it Yeah. And I tell people that to grow is like often I hear we're never going to be good co parents and I'm like, you know, I've seen some of the people that I would have bet on us. You know, they probably can't figure it out. They almost always figured it out. I mean, you got to figure you have the rest of your life. I mean, I know how I felt my oldest will be 30 Actually next year I think how which means that the beginning of my Well, I don't know if it's a congressional or not. We started co parenting. I had my child very young. I was 16. And his father and I were friends. And then we weren't friends. And we tried to work it out. And we got engaged. We broke up the marriage. I mean, it was a nightmare. But I mean, I remember thinking, there's just no way, and it took a very long time, but you have the rest of your life. So, you know, I can say it's been 30. It didn't take 30 years. But looking back, I'm like, How far have we come? Since 30 years ago? I mean, you just can't predict those kinds of things. And so really, as a parent, all you can do is just keep trying, right? So what if it does take eight years? So what if it does take 20 eventually grow up? And then they're gonna have kids? Do you really want to eat this fight and degrade parenthood with obviously, there are exceptions to every rule. And I know that co parenting does not always work. And I hate that. But when I hear these stories about how people just stuck with it, and eventually, lives change, right, people remarry, they have children, and all of that has a significant impact on your co parenting relationship. Yeah, should it? I don't know, does it 100%? Yeah, it just happens that way. So I love hearing those stories. And I think it's important to just say, you actually have the rest of your life to figure this out, right? And to

DJ Stutz  16:15  
it, and it's not something like, oh, when the kids are young, or whatever, it affects them their whole life, if you're not able to figure this out, I remember working with a guy, and it was the holidays. And I was in the break room. And he's just sitting there, and we were pretty good friends, we got along really well. And you could just see tears in his eyes, you know, and we're, it's coming up on the holidays. And I'm like, Dude, what is going on? And he said, I don't understand why it has to be this way. Now, I have to have two separate Christmases, I have to have two separate Thanksgiving dinners, I have to have two. And it's a big deal. If I spent one minute more with my mom than I do my dad. And here's the grown adult with children of his own, who was still struggling with the emotional repercussions of parents that couldn't get along at all. So what happens with weddings, so you can have two ceremonies, things are going to come along, effects them all along. And now it was affecting not just that friend of mine, their son, their grandchildren are being affected now as well, all because you've got to have a feud with somebody. For me, that seems very selfish. And I'm sorry that they did this horrible, terrible thing. And you can tell me if I'm wrong, I think oftentimes, when there's a divorce, we have to recognize that it's our nature to maybe exaggerate

Leslie Holthoff  17:48  
bias, right? You're right, you have

DJ Stutz  17:50  
your own bias. And this other parent is horrible and terrible. And they wronged me. And even if you're the one that laughed or had the affair, or whatever, well, because it's their fault, because they didn't, whatever you have all these excuses that you built in your mind, to make justification for your decisions or for how things are going. And so I think that when you recognize that, okay, it's probably not as bad as I am thinking. And how do you help people kind of get through?

Leslie Holthoff  18:26  
Well, it's a control, right? And yes, it seems like in most situations, there's one parent who is like, they're going to come home from school, they're going to do their homework, we're eating dinner this time, right, after dinner, naptime and shower time, it's a very specific bedtime, and they're very routine oriented. And then you have the other parent who I'm not saying they don't do those things. But maybe it's let's eat an early dinner early. And they do an out of order, quote, unquote, right and right. One parent is like, it's not, you know, he needs to be in bed by 730. He's in bed by 730. And I'm saying, Look, you gotta back out, is your child going to be fed dinner? Are they going to be bathed? Honestly, even the bathing thing can from just time skip a day, every now and then.

DJ Stutz  19:08  
Right? Especially when they're younger,

Leslie Holthoff  19:09  
the child will end up being a little bit more well rounded, actually, by having these two different experiences because it allows them to adapt. I mean, are they okay? Having the same routine every night for their life? Yes, they're also okay, not as long as they're safe and healthy. It's hard to let go, but it's a control thing. The other part can be equally as good at parenting, even if their parenting doesn't look like your parenting. And I think that in that is one of those very specific situations where it feels like it's a divorced co parenting thing. And it's not I can tell you now my parents celebrated 45 before he passed away, and I can say my mom went to all the doctor's offices and my mom went to all the teacher conferences, and my dad did certain things with me and they had different things that they He did. And when my mom was out of town, my dad did a terrible job. We got dogs every single time she was out of town. And you know what it meant nothing. My dad was an amazing father. And I learned so many things from him, even if what I didn't learn from him was how to make dinner. You know what I mean? Like, it's actually a good thing that a child has two parents that are bringing two different sets of lives, right? Experiences and the things that they know. And that's how a child learns. And it's really, really hard to let go of that control thing when what you think is best for your child is best for your child. And maybe it is, but that's not really the question, right? It's right, it's okay for them to learn two different ways to do things. And it's a if it doesn't all happen exactly the same every single week, every single night. You know, they're going to learn by the repetitive nature of it, but they're going to learn the big picture, that kind of stuff. And in the scheme of things, it doesn't really matter.

DJ Stutz  20:57  
You're still right, and in fact, gets adjust to different rules for different places. Yes, you have to understand that you behave differently in church than you do at the park. They understand that you behave differently in the library, then you do in the music room, there are different rules for different places. And so when you explain it like that, Mommy has rules for her house, Daddy has rules for his house, they may not be the same, but we both love you. We just have different ways of doing things. And so when you're at your mom's, I expect you to follow mom's rules. Or when you're at your dad's, I expect you to follow your dad's rules. We're just different. And that's part of why we're not together. We're just different.

Leslie Holthoff  21:47  
Yeah. And it's also to note that sometimes the kids can adapt to well, meaning if you're not talking if the parents are not talking, I know, with my 30 year old was, I don't know, 14, we'll call it, his dad had remarried. And they were complaining to me, and we had not been doing a good job of talking at this point about all the things he wasn't doing, meaning they were like, we are making breakfast room every day, and we're making his lunch every day and we're doing his laundry, we just feel like he should be more self sufficient. And by the time they have this conversation with me, they are angry. And I'm like, I'm not doing any of those things for him. He's doing his own laundry, and he's getting up in the morning and making his own like I'm doing, they were floored to find out that my son was very independent at my house, and pretending he couldn't do any of those things and their house, right. So that's a perfect example of what happens if you don't talk about things. And sometimes it's good just to check in when things change, like, Hey, I just want you to know, like my son got anatomy because he felt like I should be doing the laundry more frequently. Because the clothes he wanted to wear were sometimes dirty. And that's when I said, Wait, champ, why don't you do the laundry. And then it's always done when you want it to be, I should have at that point, probably all this data like, Hey, I just want to let you know he kind of took over as laundry, I'm going to help them if there's a problem. But he's this is something he's doing. So they would have known that we could have supported each other and that I didn't. And because of that I don't think that we handled that the best way as CO parents. But when you talk about even those moments, if you sharing them with the other parent and just letting them know what's going on. That's the kind of stuff that's important for both houses, when they they're getting up at an alarm clock at my house. But you have to wake them up and you're struggling to get them out of bed. There's a disconnect those types of things. Either you're able to do it or you're not there, they're taking advantage of something if they're only doing it part of the time. So it's good to talk about that stuff. Or if suddenly, some it's important to to talk about when something changes, you know, like Johnny has been getting up by himself for years. And all of a sudden, I can't wake him up at night. What what's going on? You know, it's really important to figure out, Is there something happening that you're not seeing that's causing that kind of problem? I hate that the best, most important thing about co parenting is communication, because that's really the thing you don't want to do. But it's effective, and it works. And you just have to keep doing it even when it's a little things that you obviously you don't have to say that they're doing their own laundry now, but what a big help that would have been for them to know that at the time.

DJ Stutz  24:20  
I totally agree. And I also think that when these big decisions, too, they're going to be some big decisions that are going to be I mean, like sleepovers with friends, or where we allow them to go or not go or what are some safety things. But I think too, we'd have to be super careful because our kids are really smart and they know how to play. And it's not that they're bad kids that they're playing each side. It's just that oh, here's an opportunity.

Leslie Holthoff  24:48  
Right so human thing right to take advantage of exactly very and they learn that very young. Yeah, you can't fault them or Yeah, it's your fault, right for not talking to the other parent and saying That's okay. It doesn't matter if they go to bed at eight or 830. Really, the fact is, you're telling them to go to bed, right? They've got to have a bed. To some point. Yes. Like, if you're allowing them to stay up all night and go to school without sleeping, big problem, that's a red flag, but you know, time, and maybe you can learn to maybe when they say what we've actually been letting him stay up until nine, you can say, Oh, well, you know what, it's this grades aren't slipping, you seem to be fine. Maybe I'll make that adjustment at my house.

DJ Stutz  25:28  
Right? That was you anyone to look and see about havior issues and grades and all of that kind of stuff, too. But I think that having that ability to communicate. So one of the examples that I've been doing many times, either teaching kindergarten or teaching my parenting classes was, you would see kids kind of say, Well, Mom would buy this for me. Well, Dad would let me go, right? And you can say, Oh, really, I'm so glad he's gonna buy that for you. Or I'm so glad that when you're at your dad's, or when you're at your mom's, you can do those things. Just here, we have different roles. And so you don't need to get into the whole me versus them thing. Congratulate them. Wow, that's great. Dad's gonna get that for you work, Mom's gonna get that for you. And we don't buy into the manipulation, which again, is normal, which it's okay. That they're doing it, it just doesn't mean we have to put up

Leslie Holthoff  26:29  
with it. Exactly, exactly. And so communication really solves that. And then another thing to add to your, you know, never talking about about the other parent, I took it a step further. And I think it's important to you don't have to make excuses for them. But I always try to throw something in their corner. You know, like if my son had a complaint about, oh, my gosh, my dad is always late from picking me up from soccer. You know, like, well, you know, your dad does a job that sometimes he just can't get out at the right time. Or well, maybe he forgot to get get asked me like, you know, and I try to just sort of be like, hey, there's only circumstances that we don't know, it's easy for me to jump in and be like, all you have to do is be there at six o'clock. That's easy. And that might be what I think the whole time. But I tried really hard. But whenever things like that popped up to throw something out there that would allow my child to think about it a little more deeply. And just make it worse,

DJ Stutz  27:19  
you know? Right, right. I think that is such a big ace is that. Another thing is that I noticed when my brother got his divorce, and they were going through all their stuff, too bad years. My mom never got involved. And in fact, she never said anything bad about my brother's ex wife. And I remember talking to her about it. And she said, here's the deal. Unless someone dies, she's still the mother of my grandson. You're still family. So that makes family. Exactly right. And so that makes family. And so I'm going to treat her with dignity. Now I know that there are cases where that becomes almost impossible with attacks, and people can take everything so far that but this was pretty bad. Yeah, and yeah, if my ex sister in law needed something she needs, you could call my mom. Or if she needed someone to help watch the boy, she could call my mom, because her family was

Leslie Holthoff  28:21  
very disappoint, you know, eight years later, or whatever it was they start getting alone, have your mom had jumped in and been awful or said things you know, that would have just been a whole nother hurdle that had to be forgotten about and it complicates things. I agree. When I went through my divorce, my mom said something very similar to me. And that was just sort of like, you kind of stood up in front of everybody and said, I want you to welcome this person into my life. And then you had a chance. We're not all walking away, because you decided you didn't want to do this anymore. There's levels. Okay. You know, yeah, I'm happy that my mom was cordial to them. And to him and his family. And you know, that was great. I don't, personally, I'm glad that she didn't, you know, invite him over for for dinner when I wasn't around. Like I'm, I'm happy that she didn't do that. Although I do know, relationships that worked like that. And I do but for me, I needed that space. But but she made a similar statement. And it's true. You can't you can't just change your mind and expect everybody else to and I'm glad that she's been a neutral party for that exact reason.

DJ Stutz  29:20  
Yeah, so true. And in fact, I'll just tell you real quickly, so my dad died very suddenly. And wife number one was a beautiful piano player. She just was very talented. And so at my dad's funeral, we had the grandkids singing a song wife number one was playing the piano wife number two was leading the music with the kids and so they had to practice together and get the kids and I thought that

Leslie Holthoff  29:49  
well you apps in common, right? Like you share the most significant relationship in your life are one of them. And then you share these children and I mean, that kind of is enough to build have bridges. Usually you don't I found that to like both of my exes remarried, and they both had two more kids with new wives. I can say that I'm not best friends with them. I don't need to be best friends with them, right? What we need to do together, I definitely feel like in a pinch, if there's something going on, I can pick up the phone and say, Hey, have you noticed this change of behavior or could an email if necessary to talk about things, I generally do deal with their dads more, but I'm not. I don't know, I don't have a great relationship with them. But it's not a bad relationship with them either. And I think that's really important. And I am happy that my kids didn't have to see that. I mean, and let's also talk about the hard set parenting is, um, there are a step parent tactical, and they are step parenting my children, who can be very, very complicated. And I respect that. And they did both become mothers. But you know, for a while there, it was just my son. And that step parenting just does not get enough recognition, it's a hard place to begin, it's a hard thing to do. And I know that, and I know more about that now than I did then. But it's just all challenging all types of parenting is challenging. And it helps to remember that, that we're all trying to figure it out. And there really aren't any right answers, because something that works for your first child, as you all know, may not work at all for the second child. So when you think you've got there, it will quickly remind you that Haha, you do not. You know, babies, it's like, oh, they're sleeping through the night. I'm like, well, that's cute. They probably won't be tomorrow. It's changed so quickly, even when they're teenagers, like things are constantly changing. So nobody ever has figured it out. It's always about learning. And it's about adapting.

DJ Stutz  31:39  
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so what works for one couple family, whatever, may not work at all for another. And neither one is right, neither one is wrong. It just is. And so you make the best you can out of that situation. And you're there if you can be there with your kids and manage through. So I have two kids that are divorced, out of the five. And my oldest. It's one of those really hard things. But I've noticed though, even though they have to communicate through email, they can't talk on it. But yet, when one of the kids graduated from high school, they were both there. And sitting in the same row with the kids. I mean, they have younger kids in between. But yeah, they were cordial, even with all of the difficulty and whoop, yeah, it's but even with that, they were able to come together for the graduation or baptisms or what other things and it's been nice that the kids have been able to have, you know, cuz you take pictures of everybody at these events, and to have pictures years after the divorce. What's everybody there? Oh, yeah,

Leslie Holthoff  32:57  
it was really important to me that my son's graduated from high school, they had a picture with them. And both of their parents and a picture of their parents. Both are some Americans. those occasions are rare. And then these days when I feel like people are doing family photos every year, which was not a thing when I was a young mom, but it's true. And I'm like I that was important to me. And it's really important to me that the fact that my son has two different families will not be an issue when he gets married will not be an issue when he decides to have your work. It does mean that there are different Thanksgivings and different Christmases. But I like to think that we've come up with new traditions, and we've figured out a way to maneuver that. So it doesn't feel cumbersome to him, you know, like it's just sort of is now but there are occasions when all of that should go on the backburner and your child deserves that.

DJ Stutz  33:41  
And that's the thing. Your child deserves that. Right? And so does my need for validation from my child's need for a life that isn't too chaotic. That shows kindness and that there's peace. Well, you talk about learning about the art of negotiation correctly. They're able to witness this.

Leslie Holthoff  34:04  
Because when you're just smiling and nodding, but inside you're full of anxiety, because it's

DJ Stutz  34:12  
oh yeah, you're imagining all kinds of fun things in your ad, or you're just smiley day. In your mind, you're

Children  34:23  
like, oh my gosh,

Leslie Holthoff  34:24  
one more hour, but yeah, it's worth it.

DJ Stutz  34:29  
But even when there's the marriage, so it's still open communication. It's still negotiation. It's still letting the other person be different. yourself. So keeping that together, co parenting within a marriage is still co parenting.

Leslie Holthoff  34:44  
Well and something else to note is that all of this dad's having so much time with their kids and that is honestly kind of new. I think a lot of I know my ex is grew up with their dads the way that I grew up with mine, which was they were a little hands off one parenting unless they He's got really bad and you know, and they both were trying to be different kinds of fathers, they're way more involved. But when you didn't grow up with that, and you're trying to figure it out, it's ups and downs, right? They were trying to those dad for them to be just like, the girl kind of moms we want to be alright. But they didn't have that. And I did take me realizing that they were really they were trying, you know, they were trying to be a dad, and they were used to seeing sometimes means it takes a little while to figure it out. Yeah, thankfully they did. So that all matters, too. And I'm glad all these fathers are stepping up. And I'm very pro fathers.

DJ Stutz  35:38  
Oh, big time need you already

Leslie Holthoff  35:42  
joined shared custody. And I'm trying to learn about the 5050 Parenting schedules and how those work and if they're effective, and I'm thrilled to see that there's so much it's happening so much more frequently.

DJ Stutz  35:52  
Yeah, for sure. My youngest son, they live in like a townhouse. And his wife's a teacher. And though she had this little boy in her class, and the parents divorced, and I don't even know the reasons I don't care, that mom was living in the same townhouse complex as my son and his family that and in fact, it was the townhouse right next door to my son came up for sale. And the mom of this little boy called and said, Hey, there's a townhouse for sale in the same conference, you might want to look at it, he wanted to find it so that they're in the same complex. That's great. It's very fluid. And I thought, wow, now that's an example.

Leslie Holthoff  36:29  
Yeah, my ex husband bought a house in the same neighborhood that I had bought in after we got to be honest, you have intrusive at first, like all the neighborhoods, you gotta land in mind. And there were a couple of times where it was less than ideal, but for my son to be would ride the same bus and just get off at a different stop was priceless. It was easy for him. He had the same friends, you know, they might have been a couple blocks apart. But he could exactly was it was really the best thing.

DJ Stutz  36:56  
Yeah. And that was one of the things that in talking to this couple that they were like the kids have the same friends. They have all of the same things going on. Just mom was on this side of complex and dadless on the

Leslie Holthoff  37:08  
call. And when you need help, it's easier to write it's like sure, yeah, work and you can't be there. It's so easy to say, Can he walk across the whatever to come to your house? Yeah, he was on the other side of town. It's a different school system. There's no way that he can get from work to help you like it really is. Also, I wish more parents considered that but it's becoming more. That's That's what I'm saying is I think it's beautiful.

DJ Stutz  37:32  
I do too. So Wesley, if my listeners and watchers want to find out more, get in contact with you and some of this great advice that you have to give and the mentoring that you do. Where did they go, Leslie hope

Leslie Holthoff  37:45  
coaching.com. Email me through there where there's lots of contact forms and anything like that. And it talks a little bit more about coaching, but less than coaching.com.

DJ Stutz  37:56  
Great, and we're gonna have that down in the show notes. And no matter what format you're listening in, we'll have that down there. So it'll be a link, you can just click on it and talk to Leslie, she's amazing. She is so great. I mean, you can just tell from her upbeat and positive vibe that I would rather have someone like you coaching than a lot of some of the other coaches kind of feed into that. Oh, you're the right one. So, Leslie, before we go, I always ask my guests the same question. We know there's no perfect parents. But how would you describe the successful parents,

Leslie Holthoff  38:33  
as they've got successful parent is one that is not afraid to ask for help. And learning and embracing that it just is going to be different. There's nothing you can do about it. Learn how to sort of go with the flow and change with your family. And circumstances. Yeah, for sure.

DJ Stutz  38:50  
Such great news. And I agree with you very much. So everyone, be sure and leave a rating and review on the podcast. We love those. And most importantly of all, tell the friends and invite a friend to listen and then you can have a fun discussion on that all the great insights and information that's here on the podcast. So Leslie, thank you so much. I really appreciate you spending this time with us.

Leslie Holthoff  39:13  
Oh, thank you for having me.

DJ Stutz  39:18  
And if you want to learn more about Leslie, her coaching and her website, you're gonna find all that information in the show notes below. And while you're there, hit that follow button to make sure you're getting in on the amazing episodes that we have each week. And if you liked what you heard in today's podcast, be sure to rate and review and then really important tell a friend and you can do this whether you listen on Apple, Spotify, some other platform, or even if you just listen from the Imperfect Heroes podcast website, so if you're on the website, which is www.imperfectheroespodcast.com You might be there right now, you're gonna see up at the top reviews click on that. And then you'll see leave a review. Click on that. It's that easy. 

Calling All peace seekers. Let's get ready to ignite your spirit and radiate positivity with the five days of peace challenge. Register now and be the first to experience this transformative event. So we're going to be going from July 10 to July 14. And we're going to embark on a joyous journey toward inner harmony and maybe even some global unity every morning and emails going to burst into your inbox revealing the day's focus and challenge. And it's going to be packed with some exciting suggestions to kickstart your peaceful endeavors. And then brace yourself for some electrifying live events that are going to be at 6pm Mountain Time each evening, on our Facebook page. And there you're going to be able to participate and immerse yourself in some really fun and uplifting discussions. So don't miss out on the opportunity to be a beacon of change and spread the waves of peace throughout the world. Register today and let's create a symphony of positivity together. And you can register by going to the website www.littleheartsacademyusa.com or you can just click on the link that's below in the show notes. And next week, my guest will be Veronica Williams. And in contrast with our episode today, we're going to be talking about keeping your marriage strong while raising your little ones. So check it out and see and until next time, let's find joy in parenting!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai